VGM Community Album Proposed Guidelines

[Solaphar]

This thread exists for people to post their ideas of which guidelines we should use for how tracks get accepted onto the 2011 vgmusic album.

I'll propose a few to get the ball rolling:

*Each participant may submit only one solo-effort tune and one collaborative tune at most. Doing just one of those is obviously fine too.

*Each tune must somehow incorporate the central theme of the album. (Obviously, more ideas and suggestions are needed to elucidate and expand upon this)
*As a corollary, if we decide to use a melodic or chordal motif as part of the theme, then the motif must be pointed out by the submitter if it's not obvious. (i.e. they should post a screen shot of where it occurs in the music, in clef or piano roll view) If a melody is used as a motif, it doesn't have to be used as a melody, it can be a harmonic line, a bassline, and it can use different durations (i.e. if the motif consistes of some quarters and eighths, it can be incorporated as half, 16th, etc notes.) I already know Kris didn't like the idea of a motif, so this guideline probably won't make the final cut, but it can't hurt to put it up here for discussion.

*Real instruments and virtual instruments are both acceptable.
*If real instruments are used, they must not clip (i.e. create long plateaus at maximum amplitude) and they must be played "in-time" with the tempo and meter, unless there's a legitimate artistic reason for deviating from those (like distortion on a guitar). They must be recorded at a minimum 16-bit and 44,100 Hz quality (i.e. no two-bit microphones). This helps ensure quality.
*Sample or VSTi quality must have a certain realism (I.e. be higher than midi). Perhaps not OCRemix level of quality but not "lolz, I recorded the midi playing" level of quality either.

My last proposal for now:
*Once we have a list of proposed guidelines, we can vote on each proposal individually, as a "yes" or "no", and only the ones with like 65% or more support become ingrained guidelines. So we'll know a supermajority is happy with them.
*Ideas that only get like 51%-65% can be discussed more and refined until they get the support of more people.

Now, I'm sure people will disagree with one or more of my above, and I welcome that. This thread exists so we can discuss, debate, and refine ideas as we go. And to discard the ones most of us dislike.


Just so it's clear, once we have come up with some guidelines and set them in stone, via consensus and/or vote, those will be the criteria by which tracks are accepted or rejected for inclusion onto the album. Just stating this clearly so everyone understands what we're doing in this thread.

Btw, let's be sure to take at least a full week to arrive at a finalized list of guidelines, to give every potential participant a chance to weigh-in and have their say. Not everyone logs into these forums every day.

[blue.nocturne]

I'd say instead of one, a limit of 3. One song only is way too restrictive.
In terms of quality, I'd say as long as it does not clip too much, doesn't sound like it took 10 minutes to make, and if it fits the theme of the game it would be okay.
Voting may take too long, so I'd say we just fish out for responses and go for the middle ground.

Anyways, before we can even start, we need to pick a game type.
An RPG would be ideal since those games have a lot of freedom in terms of compositional variety.
I think an RPG would be the best choice, since it would accommodate people who compose with darker tones such as KT while being good with people with lighter tones such as Dentelle.
Basically RPG = wide range of freedom while making it easy to include various kinds of styles.

Also, once the game type is established, we need to pick what kind of songs we need.
Here's a list of potential things:
Title Theme
Character Themes
Event Themes
Location Themes
Battle Themes
Mini Game Themes
Ending Theme

So I'd say put out a list of songs to pick from, and people pick and choose what they want to do.
Obviously there can only be one title theme, but there can be multiple battle and location themes.
If people are not okay with this, then perhaps we need a different system.

Also about the people talking about "promotion" of the album, I feel that that's not very important.
The ultimate purpose of this is to get peer feedback on a focused topic song, and perhaps get inspired to make something awesome.
There's no prizes for any of these contests, the prize is seeing what everyone did and how you are improving.
Since there is no scoring as a gauge of how we are doing, I'd say we should have mandatory commenting from participants if they want to hear their own comments.
We all love getting comments, but we like writing them half as much.
With this system, we are certain to get at least 2 things out of this:
A. An awesome new song
B. Feedback
If you really want lots of people to hear it, then you can put it on youtube or something.
If you mean promotion in terms of getting people to participate, I feel we have a lot of people already that would want to join in.
And we can extend this to other forums or contact your buddies if need be.

[Willow]

Sol, are you volunteering to run this event are you just starting a louder, more concentrated discussion of it here?

[Just to be sure.]

[Kris Troutman]

I'm on par with the RPG theme idea, as it's probably what most are familiar with to some degree.

Don't forget there's also:
Travel theme
Airship theme
Final Boss

It may also be a good idea (if we went through with that kinda list of stuff) to know who plans on doing what, so that we don't get every last song as an airship theme.

I'm pretty sure it's predictable what some would chose, but it's just to be safe.

Also, one big con for using a repeated melody/theme in every song, is that you would end up with something like how they did it in Brawl, causing the overall songs to have a sorta dullness to them, even though the songs may be great, when you hear one after the next, you are just overwhelmed with that repeating theme. Lots of games get away just fine without repeating it, and some only use a consistent theme within a select area of songs, while the others don't use it.

It can work, but I doubt it will if it's required for every last song. If it was done, it should be tagged by the songs it would be appropriate in. One example is:

Overworld, Title, Opening, Ending, ONE Character's Theme, ONE Cinematic. Anything else would just cause it to be overwhelming, or just down right silly.

Anyway, those are my current thoughts. Hopefully they help you guys clarify your decision.

[Solaphar]

Sol, are you volunteering to run this event are you just starting a louder, more concentrated discussion of it here?

[Just to be sure.]

Heh, wish I could but I already have another big collaborative music project that I'm running on another forum, which sucks up lots of my free time. So yeah, can't run a second one. =)

Hoping we can get someone suitable for this album though, even if it takes a week or two to find the right person.


I created this thread to keep the focus solely upon crafting guidelines for an album. Not to make things "louder" heheh. Just more focused on a single issue (album track acceptance criteria).

Willow, once we have all of the album guidelines set in stone (by consensus and/or by vote) AND we have someone able to coordinate the album, then I expect the coordinator to make a new thread for running/organizing the album. This thread is only for crafting guidelines, it's usefulness ends once the guidelines are done (and I'll request that you or someone else lock this thread at that time).

I'd say instead of one, a limit of 3. One song only is way too restrictive.

Hmm, not necessarily opposed to it, but... As an explanation for (and the reasoning behind) why I only suggested one solo entry per person (and one collab), it's because I anticipate that we'll get a lot of participants (if we do this right). The album will be enormous even with my proposed limit in place. I guess we need more thoughts though. 3 tunes per person is quite a lot... And also, wouldn't it be good to dedicate one's time to getting 1 or 2 songs sounding fabulous rather than jsut having 3 tunes to divide ones time? If a participant has that much spare time to make 3 solo tunes, then perhaps it would be better spent on making an epic-sounding collab?

So here's my counter-proposal to your limit of 3:
How about 2 solo works and 1 collab per participant OR 1 solo and 2 collabs (at the participant's choice)? And the third item can only be chosen after everyone else has had their pick of their first one or two tracks (so we don't get one person doing all three boss themes or something like that).

Voting may take too long, so I'd say we just fish out for responses and go for the middle ground.

Yeah, you might be right.

Perhaps we can come to a consensus for most of the proposals and only vote on the ones where it's absolutely necessary.

So I'd say put out a list of songs to pick from, and people pick and choose what they want to do.
Obviously there can only be one title theme, but there can be multiple battle and location themes.
If people are not okay with this, then perhaps we need a different system.

Yeah, I was going to say this might limit too much, but maybe I'm wrong. I like the idea but I do worry about how we will divide themes between people. Especially since battle themes are ever popular. Then again, I know many RPG's that have up to 8 or even a dozen battle themes, so maybe this will work. Let's keep talking about it anyway.

As for what you said about promotion and such: I think, once it's all done, we could ask that links to it be posted on the VGMusic's twitter, facebook, etc pages once it's done. Since this is meant to showcase the talents of the VGMusic community.

Also, one big con for using a repeated melody/theme in every song, is that you would end up with something like how they did it in Brawl, causing the overall songs to have a sorta dullness to them,

Yeah. I sort of thought the motif idea was iffy myself. But I did also propose that the melody could be hidden, you know, "buried" as a harmonic part or something. Even alter the note durations so it's not immediately obvious that the motif is even in the piece. If that makes sense... (I can elaborate further if it doesn't)


[Edit to respond to post below]

About the theme. There hasn't been any particular agreement on the game soundtrack theme yet.

Yes, that's true. But, on the other hand, this is a video game music forum, so we should probably aim to make the album (at least somewhat) sound like video game music. Since we want the album to be cohesive, the logical extension of that means we'll probably end up with something that sounds like a game soundtrack (although this is not necessarily true, since it can still sound cohesive even if not in soundtrack form).

If for some reason the majority favors making an album that doesn't sound as video-gamey, then obviously we should go in that direction. In any case, consensus is good.

[AnthonyMorgan]

Actually I'm in favor of the one-song limit. For an album, I'd find it better if each author was represented equally. If you have one song per author (or team) then you're sure all songs are very different from each other and represent a unique approach, which makes for a more diverse listening experience.

About the theme. There hasn't been any particular agreement on the game soundtrack theme yet. My suggestion remains the same:

I'd suggest taking a vast but clear subject, that allows authors to each pick their part from it and interpret it the way they want. For example Greek mythology -> each song is dedicated to a god or hero; two authors can't pick the same, of course, so we'll need some organization there. Or historical events -> each song depicts a major historical event, then the track list is arranged chronologically from ancient times to present days. Or a stupid one like kitchen utensils -> each song is dedicated to the fabulous adventures of a particular kitchen utensil. Anyway you get the idea. There are many possibilities.

I'd be ok with an RPG theme as well, but I'd prefer a theme everyone knows the references from, rather than one which is mostly vague and undetermined.

[Rocco]

Let's not do a mock game sondtrack. I like Anthony's idea: pick a general theme, and leave interpretation up to the composers.

[Kris Troutman]

Yeah, and if the theme is chosen wisely, it can be done by more people.

[Charybdizs]

I'm in agreement about the Mock Game soundtrack not being the best idea. It'd be too cliche, and definitely way too broad a category. To tell the truth, I'm all for something abstract and weird, like Anthony's Utensil idea. Of course, not necessarily that one in particular, there is certainly lots of room for abstract themes.
e.g.
Planets,
Jewels,
Colors,
Emotions,
Foods,
Animals.

Lot's of possibilities.

Also, I think promotion is a good idea. I mean, sure, this is mainly for the opportunity to team up with others to make something awesome, but I think it's also a good opportunity to get our names out there, and known to people besides the regular forum goers. I'd hate to pass that down. :/

[Rocco]

My suggestion also still stands. How about a Solar System theme, with each composer picking a planet or some other feature? (Like the Sun or asteroid field)

[Kris Troutman]

Instead of solar system, I suggest make it galaxy. More options there, and it's still pretty much the theme you want. We'll probably run out of options if solar system is done. This is of course, assuming that many will join the project. If not, then it's not a problem.

[Rocco]

I can dig it. Let's get a list of prospective contributors going, and if everyone else likes the idea, we can start assigning ourselves themes.

Some ideas:
Earth
Star
Comet
Nebula
Black Hole
Antimatter
Gravity
Neutron Star
Quasar
Pulsar
Atmosphere
Solar Flare
Magnetic Field
Wormhole
The Big Bang
The Life Cycle
Etc.

Sound groovy?

[Kris Troutman]

I say don't sign anyone up yet until there's an actual thread with the album project ready to go. We should be sure enough people agree. So far I like the theme, and would do it.

Maybe just make the general rule that it has to be something that exists in a Galaxy, as I am sure there are many more things we just aren't thinking of. Then when a person knows what they want to make, they submit their name and the theme they do, and if it's approved they get put on the page with their name and theme so others won't get the same theme, and then have a list of themes as an example in-case a thought can't be made by the person alone.

Or, if you want to keep things a surprise, keep the list hidden to yourself (or whoever the moderator is of the album project), and then only list if a theme is taken or not.

[Rocco]

It should be a public list drawn up before anyone starts composing. Otherwise, we run the risk of having two or three Super Massive Black Holes, or whatever else.

Dibs on "Sun".

EDIT: Oh, right. I didn't read your post well enough. Yeah, if we want to keep the themes a secret, an approval process can take the place of publicly stating our intent.

[mudlord]

Sample or VSTi quality must have a certain realism (I.e. be higher than midi).

Define higher than MIDI.