Blitz Lunar wrote:in my opinion, you should just allow anyone to participate if they want, and quality control should be kept to a mininum. if a song is blatantly not up to scratch then tell the author. do it all publically, help each other, etc.
Yes, this is basically one of the things I was trying to say. We shouldn't make it so strict that we needlessly exclude people. Especially people who can bring something unexpected and unusual to the table (but still cohesive with the rest of the album).
If the production isn't good enough, then we help
the person until it is
good enough. This isn't a contest, this is an album, where we let people's creativity flow and help each other learn, and release something cohesive and interesting for the internet community as an end result.
I want to reiterate once more that I think we should have very clear guidelines and/or criteria posted at the start, which every participant must adhere to in order to be included. These guidelines should not be overly strict
or unduly limit creativity, but only serve to set a bare minimum for (1)production quality and (2)for some type of album cohesiveness.
Perhaps we could also consider (3)minimum and maximum lengths, and various other ideas, but that should all be open for discussion.
In any case, we should all work together to craft suitable and appropriate guidelines. And then vote upon whether to accept them once we're done. As an analogy: Sort of like, we'll all write up the constitution, and then vote on whether to accept the final written form of said constitution. Maybe 2/3 majority should be required for acceptance? Just a proposal.
Kris Troutman wrote:Remember that music is subjective and therefor any song and every last song ever made, is not going to be liked by every last person.
Kris Troutman wrote:The more people you throw in, the more songs you will get that are not liked. It wouldn't be very fun if an album project just felt too restricted, and that there's a chance a person may just waste their time and work on a song, just to become excluded.
Yep, this is the reason I want to make it an inclusive album. People shouldn't have to waste their time & effort, and then get shut out in the end. That would be bull****.
Kris Troutman wrote:Yes QC does make sense, but not if it's a jury, and not if it's too strict. It should only be there to keep out the obvious songs, and not those of people who actually tried.
I think a lot of us are on the same page.
MaliceX wrote:No stupid musicality criteria or anything like that. If it works, in. If not, resubmit+brief point on need of improvement
Yes. There's no reason anyone need be excluded if they tweak their entry to fit the guidelines.
MaliceX wrote:If qualtiy falls short overall as far as the coordinator is concerned
I actually disagree with this, sort of. I feel that the pre-written guidelines are the only factors which should determine what passes and what gets excluded. I think the gate-keeping aspect of the project coordinator should only be giving advice on how to meet those guidelines. The person should not have an arbitrary say outside of the posted criteria/guidelines. The coordinator should be bound by the guidelines
, just like real-life judges are bound by written laws
during a criminal trial. They can't just arbitrarily sentence people to death for theft or vandalism. (Admittedly, that might not be the best analogy).
So I feel it shouldn't be "as far as the coordinator is concerned". It should be "as far as the guidelines are concerned
MaliceX wrote:For an open album project of this nature, I personally believe whoever is coordinating the compilation should be sole QC
Yes, there should be a sole gatekeeper, making sure that submitted entries adhere to the pre-written criteria. And in the case that they exclude something, they should always be able to justify that decision in writing, with regards to the pre-written criteria. As I've repeatedly said, it must not be arbitrary, nor based upon the coordinator's individual whims.
Rocco wrote:I really don't think it's too harsh on the contributors to require a high standard of production quality.
I agree that it's not too harsh, but we must collectively decided what constitutes "a high standard of production quality" and integrate it into the guidelines. In other words, it shouldn't be up to a single person.
Rocco wrote:If this is really that big of an issue, maybe we as a community should avoid projects like this in the first place.
If we can't handle it, then I'd say it's due to a lack of maturity on the part of the participants, rather than due to the idea being unfeasible. I strongly feel this can be done, and done well, be we need to think through how to do it, and have the patience to put it together.
Rocco wrote:When the end result is nothing more than "Go write a music, and then we'll put all of our musics in the same place on the internets," I fail to see the purpose of having this discussion at all.
And guidelines will solve this very thing. Guidelines will give the album cohesiveness, rather than just putting a bunch of "our musics in the same place on the internets"
Rocco wrote:Maybe instead of all-inclusive group projects, I'll just contact ten or so artists privately and arrange a collaborative album behind the scenes. The result would probably have a high production value, and no one would have to be told to their face "You didn't make the cut."
Of course you're free to make your own album that way, at any time you choose.
For those of us who'd like a true community
album though, I would hope we'd have the patience to go through with the more arduous task of open participation.
Rocco wrote:but if there's no formal quality control, there'd be almost no point to doing it that way.
Which is exactly why we need to craft set criteria. That will give us quality control.
Rocco wrote:We could already all be writing music with no stipulations on our own.
People can write music whenever they want, heh, so let's not use the slow pace of this discussion as something to blame for our individual ability or inability to write music.
The issue at hand is how to best put together a vgmusic.com community album. If one person wants to run a private album with their own personal guidelines, then that's their choice. People do it all the time.
Of course, any album released under the "vgmusic.com" banner should be inclusive. A private album is likely to be exclusionary and not community-based, and therefore should not be endorsed by vgmusic.com.
As a summary to this ridiculously long post: The solutions are there, the question is, do we have the will and the patience to bring them to fruition? I can already sense the impatience from some corners, so let's hurry up and propose individual guidelines to discuss and add to the list of criteria.